In the process, players will enhance their abilities with experience and loot, discover new locations to. For example mage. . And by doing them both at once, you aren't detracting from the performance of two different scenarios. If you have played any classes in the game so far, feel free to add to the data at this BGG link here. Frosthaven SR card? I'm trying to look online and the rulebook, but we did a road event card and the outcome was "one player may discard their current trial, treating it as through it was completed. Major Spoilers in this video for an unlockable class in Frosthaven! I cover all the cards for the unlockable Astral class and give tips on how to play. Position this as a final piece of a trap wall, in a choke, or as setup for one of your trap-arming moves. Do you agree or dis. 24. But then,. Give GeekGoldFrosthaven: Banner Spear Overview. Join us! Rage Badger Discord: special perks on our Patreon! thought. So, if you began at Over pressure and used the top action of Ancient Drill, discarding Steel Piston as part of the Attack Ability, you would perform the Over ability of Ancient Drill in its entirety, then lower Pressure by two stages (One for Ancient Drills mandatory Over Pressure box, and one for the modifier from Steel Piston). Doing the initiative dance is very helpful: go late in one round and putting haz terrain under an enemy with Lava Bomb or level 5 card Rain of Fire or moving the haz terrain with level 3 card Living Magma. A full review of the starting character cards for the class, along with an in-depth overview of its unique game mechanics. Once you level up and get a few of the bottom perks on your list, those abilities (especially the one that ) give you a lot more freedom to move about. Here is the updated version of the S3 leap guide. Those names will be spoilers for everyone not having unlocked those classes and that is why unofficial names are needed. So, a few things. We begin scenario 45, on -1 difficulty, being level 1 monsters, level 3 trap, level 3 kelp, level 2 Bannerspear. . Please check the sticky posts for FAQ and Guides! Unofficial/Not associated with Bethesda. People may already have their own preconceptions about classes from GH1. The Guide to Frosthaven Advanced Classes. ; Throwing Knives (Top is a weak ranged attack with 2 targets, useful for. Frosthaven – Amazon $214. Section book but its organized instead of random. If your Drifter is playing ranged, you can funnel enemies around them so they can pick them off without worrying about getting hit. (A boss that hits you for Attack 8 is a lot less scary when you can have a skeleton eat that damage. On a surface-level, it's very similar. SPOILER WARNING!!! - This video contains spoilers for 4 unlockable classes, but also potentially other things I may have uncovered up to this point. Our second overview is for the Inox Drifter. I briefly thought about making a guide, but. . Item 105 helps protect squishies next to their tanky friends. 693. Before writing these, we are playtesting the classes in the Frosthaven Demo on Tabletop Simulator. ago. To celebrate the launch of Frosthaven on Kickstarter, we at AYCB are doing class overviews of the six starting classes. There’s definitely still a sense that you’re being thrown in at the deep end, but the rulebook does all it can to make the plunge as comfortable as possible. Each one in a two person party has taken us about 2 hours. e: Thanks to u/TheRageBadger for formatting this beast and to u/general_cgo and u/Gripeaway for suggestions. The Frosthaven tier list won’t be so clear cut like Gloom’s because the classes are relatively more balanced standalone, but their power levels can be more heavily skewed by class pairings or party composition. The Advanced Classes in Frosthaven are the following: Humanoid: Pain Conduit and Infuser Algox: Frozen Fist and Snowdancer Savvas: Shattersong and Pyroclast Vermling: Trapper Unfettered: Hive. but I am super excited to see class guides/reviews for the Crimson Scales classes, so I really hope that's what you. 09 – Affiliate Link. Dec 15, 2022. It's a. I wanted to play a Lurker. Played Scenario 22 last night and have a few questions. Just like the Geminate the Trap is a challenge at level 1 and 2. Frosthaven is cut from the same cloth, offering a sprawling campaign of interconnected quests with branching storylines and new heroes to unlock over time. With low health and a 12-card hand, the Necromancer is a melee support class that starts slow and needs to take advantage of its summons, primarily the Skeletons, in order to succeed. Geminate: Good - lots of jumps to get over traps, good mix of ranged and pushes/pulls to help positioning. Got my copy of the game yesterday and I've been punching tokens ever since. dwarfSA. 93 – Affiliate Link. However, there was a bit of a scandal on broken token and Isaac had to terminate his contract with them. Bannerspear also feels harder to move around b/c to start they only have 2x Move 4s and everything else is a Move 2. Today he show the updated 11 class icons, so the 17th is one of the new class that wasn't in the first version. : early retirement foibles) and focus. What are these good for?But arguably the biggest selling point behind Frosthaven for existing players is the ability to mix and match character classes across all three games in the Gloomhaven series. Frosthaven. r/Gloomhaven • I LOVE Frosthaven, but I have a single, very small, complaint. 2. Load 'CORE Ability Card Back - With Bleed. temporal displacement. Anyways, cast your vote below, or add some thoughts to the. Obsidian shield's top, to me, reads "Deal 5 damage, you don't control when. We will focus on the level 1 cards for each class. Frosthaven: Drifter Overview. All classes within Frosthaven that are locked upon start of Frosthaven, and require the completion of a quest line or some other long-term project for them to ally with the party. But then the knock on effects for scenario balance and in particular monster AI would be too game breaking. I mean the KS had options for Standees or Figures. Seems like its hard to pull it away from being kind of good at both. More Geek Sites. You don't usually mind if your summon doesn't do any damage on its attack, since the enemy will still be getting the negative condition. One of the starting classes for the Frosthaven Board Game from Cephalofair Games. Frosthaven Blinkblade Guide - Found Here! As with Gripeaway, I've used Google Docs (and expect this to be the new norm), as I've had my. First there is the notorious potion 84. Exactly what we did, but it still took just as long as a 14 round scenario with how much book keeping and monster actions there were… not fun at all. r/Gloomhaven • 26 days ago. The long-awaited official FAQ for Frosthaven is available. Person posted: I mostly play 4 player and while summoning can get a little tricky due to like spacing issues and obviously the extra monsters you also have an extra ally to help coordinate with and take hits for your summon and help focus fire to kill enemies faster. 1. Facebook. You need a specific major potion to get the most enjoyment out of this class. My biggest takeaway after playing the class is that the summons are there to support you and not the other way around. Frosthaven. . I’m struggling to find painted miniatures of the starting classes in Frosthaven, I’m looking for front and back pics. To celebrate the launch of Frosthaven on Kickstarter, we at AYCB are doing class overviews of the six starting classes. 23. Gloomhaven. Stamina potion, that allows you to play Dismantle twice in the first cycle: Boar Trap T1, follow up T2 with Improvised Improvement, to update your turn 0 trap from the perk to a 5+Wound trap and use bottom of Dismantle to build a 9-wound trap. We will focus on the level 1 cards for each class. My guess is the moon in star. May 8. By Carlo Sobral April 7, 2020 62420 5 To celebrate the launch of Frosthaven on Kickstarter, we at AYCB are doing class overviews of the six starting classes. Video Caption. Frosthaven Character Ability Cards; Trapper, Boar Catcher, Caltrops, Electrified Net, Enticing Bait, Exploding Decoy, Flurry of Nails, Furry Facade, Honeypot, Spike. . Given the self damage inflicted upon summoning, the class can't be considered a. Ambadastor • 1 min. In the process, players will enhance their abilities with experience and loot, discover new locations to. r/Gloomhaven. Imgur was bugging out for days on end so I had to go a different route. Our fourth. One of my fastest and best paint jobs ever. I'm not certain this is 100% 1:1 to what you'd find on the alchemy chart (and believe there's at least one notable exception where it isn't), but it'd be pretty close to start. Gloomhaven, Jaws of the Lion, and Frosthaven are cooperative games of tactical combat, battling monsters and advancing a player's own individual goals in a persistent and changing world that is played over many game sessions. To pass the time I'm doing another Gloomhaven run with one class from each game. Before writing these, we are playtesting the classes in the Frosthaven Demo on Tabletop Simulator. Over the course of Frosthaven 's campaign, players will be able to upgrade Frosthaven. . 10 – Affiliate Link. Hi, I'm playing solo with 2p. Discover the magic of the internet at Imgur, a community powered entertainment destination. To stop the misguided magus, five heroes must rise to the defense of the ancient tree—and fight. Chris Linneman. the Target's projectile token in order to make the attack. 15. I cover general strategy with persist cards, discuss the various cards, and wrap up with. Interacts with fire, has some bleed synergy, obstacles, negative persistent abilities. These items look very strong. Purchase: Account - Platinum Upgrade - New Avatar - Archives - No-Ads - New Username - Donate on Patreon - Banner Advertisement -. 60. sap speed. Played Scenario 22 last night and have a few questions. FH Class #2 — Blinkblade. The range of character classes across is what held my interest in Gloomhaven since its initial release and what keeps me playing now. Gloomhaven, Jaws of the Lion, and Frosthaven are cooperative games of tactical combat, battling monsters and advancing a player's own individual goals in a persistent and changing world that is played over many game. Our second overview is for the Inox Drifter. I made these magnetic Frosthaven dials for my son's birthday. Boneshaper Class Guide. Before writing these, we are playtesting the classes in the Frosthaven Demo on Tabletop Simulator. Patreon -- - - question is both about Personal Quest 21 A Study of Life, Capture 8 enemies, and building 88's contents. Along with fixing balance issues and trying to tell a deeper, more nuanced story set on the edge of civilization, Frosthaven introduces new ideas like developing your own town, crafting weapons or armor, and seasonal events. Our fourth overview is for the Banner Spear. Gloomhaven, Jaws of the Lion, and Frosthaven are cooperative games of tactical combat, battling monsters and advancing a player's own individual goals in a persistent and changing world that is played over many game sessions. 60. Our fourth. That includes setup, tear down, and everything. General_CGO • 2 mo. We will focus on the level 1 cards for each class. borrowed time. Of course, with a class this versatile there are many more. The Necromancer can control its summons, moving them around and. Naturally, there are all-new character classes (and foes) to use in combat as well. Classes. Join us! Rage Badger Discord: special perks on our Patreon! thought Blink Bl. I would love to do this but for Frosthaven, wonder if we get a monster list /count. The final gift was a set of four of the one he picked: faux ebony top with white dials!. Frosthaven. Meteor Class level 1 card - spoiler possibly. ago. . - This class is fun to play and feels pretty well balanced at level 1. Just theory crafting at the moment. Frosthaven classes. Frosthaven Hi everyone! Inspired by many of the great guides for other classes out there, I wanted to create an in-depth guide for a class I really enjoyed, the Trap class. 1. It worked so well, I was done in 20 minutes. I gave him a box with eight different tops and eight sets of dials, all interchangeable so he could mix and match and pick his favorite. Some specific thoughts on this guide: The term "you" is directed to the reader and not the guide creator Quenched Rage's bottom seems underwhelming. After my first retirement I choose Coral. I really like the higher level cards of Trap and could see myself choosing the opposite cards that I chose for 6/7/8. I didn't have the idea that I was leveling up much with this character. In this Scoundrel guide we detail each of the. On. tsmith1534 • 4 mo. On a surface-level, it's very similar. Our first overview is for the Necromancer. Side note the unfettered enemy design and scenarios have been a lot of fun. A guide of how to play the snowflake class! Skip Navigation Accessibility Feedback Toggle Sidebar Show Menu. much better actually, plus has a higher HP track, hand size, and can do a ton of other things that Trap can’t do. We will focus on the level 1 cards for each class. The classes deserve to stand on their own merits without being compared to different classes. r/Gloomhaven • I LOVE Frosthaven, but I have a single, very small, complaint. Outpost phase i. The below section dives deeper into the starting classes that Frosthaven offers players with a focus on the lore related information for those that value the story elements of playing Frosthaven as a particular character, the impacts of the class hand size, health pool and complexity rating of their playstyle and in turn details around core game mechanics. . But I was thinking of 'three spears' from the original set as an analogy. Before writing these, we are playtesting the classes in the Frosthaven Demo on Tabletop Simulator. I'm excited to announce the first Frosthaven custom class to be released by the Custom Content Unity Guild Discord: the Unfettered CORE. My friend Alice has been on a roll lately - reviews, guides, etc. User actions menu. Do you agree or di. Spoilers: Coral Class. Video Caption. Also, if you're filling that role with this class, it's probably not the first time you've played with Meteor. In the process, players will enhance their abilities with experience and loot, discover new locations to. Regarding the trappers ability to walk across and land on traps can he turn that off whenever he wants? For example he lands on a heal trap and ends his turn without triggering it. - Moon class is also under represented in "power" due to his kill efficiency, yes. Both Gloomhaven and Frosthaven are games where a Tank is not required. SPOILER WARNING!!! - This video contains spoilers for this scenario, but also potentially other things I may have uncovered up to this point. All headings are formatted as #x# to make searching easier. I will be playing two campaigns with different groups and my current plans are to start as the Geminate and Blink. Obviously, spoilers for this class abound so enter at your. Jan 18 (edited) Frosthaven Class Unlocking Guide. Hello fellow Gloomers, I have decided to start a written Review series for the Starting Six of Frosthaven, starting with the Geminate as the class that first caught my eye when the classes were previewed back in 2020. Holy hell this class is amazing. It's quite strong, but since leaning into any of the persistents requires not. FH Class #1 — Drifter. 1) When placing water with Crashing Surge (level 1) or Blood in the Water (level 2), it says the water must be adjacent to you. For example, some characters now have non-loss summons (go back to discard instead of loss when they die), and Boneshaper has a specific starting card (Decaying Will) to ignore the effects of retaliate for summons. any unlocked class from Frosthaven can be chosen when creating a new character in another Gloomhaven game. Gloomhaven. If you want to get a jump on that, here you go. Swept up in the zeal of unraveling and reshaping arcane energies, Grand Magus Rubick marches a mob into Frosthaven, intent on uprooting the original Frostivus tree to explore the mysterious font of power beneath it. Tinkerer in Gloomhaven could afford to burn multiple cards before their first rest, and you've got two cards more than them. But generally a lot more going on. This class has been in development for over a year, undergoing many rounds of changes based on the testing and feedback from the other custom content creators on the CCUG Discord channel. We will focus on the level 1 cards for each class. His favorite is in the middle. Frosthaven: Banner Spear Overview. Written Bannerspear Guide. The characters are better; the outpost phase is great; the crafting system is fun. ago. Frosthaven. Guy A. Finally, reduce the cost by 20 percent (rounded up). If needed, decrease the difficulty by 1 for a. To celebrate the launch of Frosthaven on Kickstarter, we at AYCB are doing class overviews of the six starting classes. I was one of the lucky people who got their copy of Frosthaven early last week, so I thought I’d share some initial impressions! I’m curious to hear what others think too. -we're only on week 2. Official FAQ for Frosthaven. The large hand size is forgiving, you have all sorts of options with those cards, and nothing will make you appreciate retirement more. Drew Hauge. 94 – Affiliate Link. Gripeaway. The aim is to be a good replacement for the Gloomhaven Helper by Esoteric Software that is no longer available. There are a few different ways to play trap and you can change your style accordingly. Frosthaven Board Game Review. It has been played in multiple campaigns as well as in numerous single-scenario playtests alongside the Frosthaven starter classes. Spoilers Eclipse: extra. 5e/pathfinder/pretty much every tabletop roleplaying game is typically a trap choice. They find focus and attack as normal. Frosthaven Hey all! First off - if you prefer video guides, I really recommend Rage Badger's Snowflake guide. That's normal and part of the game. Kelp Class Guide. • 25 days ago. Frosthaven Character Ability Cards; Drifter, Bloodletting, Continuous Health, Crushing Weight, Deadly Shot, Draining Arrows, Precision Aim, Prudent Preparation. Whether you rest when you have cards in your hand or not, you still would have all your cards in your hand after the rest except the 1 you lose. Houserule how you want to count assists (1/2 a kill, 1/3 a kill, useless but fun to track, useless and annoying to track because the trap player keeps a running total and constantly reminds everyone of it, etc. In Gloomhaven, thinking ahead was an advantage, but you could almost always just play one turn at a time and be fine. Spoilers for Frosthaven Classes. Geminate can burn more than that. You can play them anytime after the character reaches level 5. When a monster dies, a player drops a loot token on the board. Frosthaven Blinkblade Guide - Found Here! As with Gripeaway, I've used Google Docs (and expect this to be the new norm), as I've had my own share of struggles with Imgur, and think that Frosthaven guides really benefit from all the additional options available in Google Documents. The argument against (other than "Gloomhaven is not Frosthaven,. GH1 classes may be OP or completely undertuned (Tinkerer!), or folks may not have liked certain parts about a GH1 class. Gloomhaven, Jaws of the Lion, and Frosthaven are cooperative games of tactical combat, battling monsters and advancing a player's own individual goals in a persistent and changing world that is played over many game sessions. The play time varies by scenario, roughly 2 hours per session but this can be affected by the number of players, the complexity of the particular scenario, and some other factors. This may take the form of simple numerical increases to adding conditions. This class has been in development for over a year and a half and has gone through countless hours of playtesting and feedback. Video Caption. The main problem I see with using a custom class is that you won't have the improved perks or masteries. Gloomhaven, Jaws of the Lion, and Frosthaven are cooperative games of tactical combat, battling monsters and advancing a player's own individual goals in a persistent and changing world that is played over many game sessions. Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC. We will focus on the level 1 cards for each class. I first thought the unique perks were only added, but others perks were combined and the total amount of perk points didn't go up. The number of curses you can put in the monster deck with one action was insane. It definitely "feels" weak at a glance and takes a scenario or so of warm up. Before writing these,. Unlike all other classes in Gloomhaven and Frosthaven, when starting a round as the Blink Blade. The CCUG voted unanimously to confirm that CORE is ready. **This video was filmed with the information from the original Kickstarter campaign. The classes deserve to stand on their own merits without being compared to different classes. • 1 mo. XaevSpace. From the few cards I’ve seen, the icons are similar to Gloomhaven, but the slight changes to them and sheer lack of words makes it. Report issues or missing content. Next, if the card has at least one previous enhancement, reduce the cost by 20 gold. ago. If I end my turn on a trap without springing it due to the perk and. User actions menu. You know who you are and what you did!. zxrn110 • 1 yr. -Finally in the preview step, you can. The Necromancer is also indirectly a bit tanky, since she adds a lot of bodies to the board who can soak big hits. Frosthaven box setup. FYI - All scenarios, to my knowledge, were tested at 2p. To celebrate the launch of Frosthaven on Kickstarter, we at AYCB are doing class overviews of the six starting classes. The Advanced Classes in Frosthaven are the following: Humanoid: Pain Conduit and Infuser Algox: Frozen Fist and Snowdancer Savvas: Shattersong and Pyroclast Vermling: Trapper Unfettered: Hive and Metal Mosaic Lurker: Deepwraith and Crashing Tide Spike Pit: The top side is an important control trap, because this and your loss stun are the only traps that can cause a monster pathing through them to effectively lose their turn. 120. Use Rallying Cry to disarm as often as possible, use. 10 – Affiliate Link Alisandra (Rage Badger) @DMRage Apr 26 instructional A guide of what cards to bring, what perks to select and how to play the Trap class! Show More Language: English Add a Tag Welcome to the Subreddit for discussing SkyrimVR. Hello again! I have finished work on the second review of my series, this time I have written on the Drifter and have focused on (what I felt were) two primary main archetypes for the class, the Melee/Tank Drifter and the Ranged/Support. . . Even though playing a tinkerer probably sucks, it actually feels great to have one in your party. FH Class #17 — "Drill" -- spoilers! For custom classes and other custom content, check the dedicated custom content page. I recently unlocked the 'trap' class and I'm finding it very unintuitive to play. Mechalibur. You could have gotten. 1. I gave him a box with eight different tops and eight sets of dials, all interchangeable so he could mix and match and pick his favorite. I mean, many classes had stuns or disarms that could affect multiple targets, were not loss cards, and might even do damage as well. Characters Items Events Monsters. Printable custom vanity storage for Frosthaven normal and elite monster standees. 1) Since it refers to the target of the attack and there is no seperating line between the two texts, does the trap springing happen before retaliate triggers? 2) If the target enemy is killed as a result of applying the trap effects, would it count as killed by an attack for battle goals (as it is in this case part of an attack ability)?Frosthaven is a large, daunting, and complex game – but with a rulebook as well-written as this, the game becomes far more accessible than it otherwise may be. Destroy the tile to perform: Attack 3, target all enemies occupying or. Yknits • 2 yr. D. And, at the start, I really wasn’t all that excited. I cover general strategy, discuss the various cards, and wrap up with perks. Frosthaven included AoE abilities with complicated shapes that can be difficult to line up by eye. (about seven games), I played solo, 2-4 chars with various GH classes. Frosthaven. Frosthaven: Deathwalker Overview. If your Drifter is playing ranged, you can funnel enemies around them so they can pick them off without worrying about getting hit. If we go on that, testing just a two person party for each scenario is 300 hours worth of work. To celebrate the launch of Frosthaven on Kickstarter, we at AYCB are doing class overviews of the six starting classes. 1. I didn't get to play my Coral for very long (only to level 5) but when you pull a personal quest that requires. 10 – Affiliate Link Alisandra (Rage Badger) @DMRage Apr 26 instructional A guide of what cards to bring, what. It's all on the first page of the book. The cross-over classes remain at 15 perk points. Join. 90. Frosthaven is a legacy-style cooperative game for 1 to 4 players, ages 14 and up, and is the sequel to Gloomhaven. Monsters will still treat beneficial traps as negatives. ago. For the mathematically inclined. It also has some access to Muddle, Poison and Wound, which are great tools as well. This is the official FAQ for Frosthaven. Q1-1:Mastery 1 - For example, in card Cooling , is replacing 1-hex hazardous terrain for obstacles considered as "Destroy" since in class notes is written that I cannot create. I originally became the Pyroclast as my third character in Frosthaven after the Boneshaper, and Seaweed. Frosthaven requires a different set of tactics than Gloomhaven, and ends up being somewhat more difficult all through the campaign as a result. Just in case you've not seen them yet, there are already 3 guides that I know of. At high levels you can actually build the Shackles such that you rarely/never take attack actions, in which case it’s fine to take the heavy-duty tanking items that add -1s to your deck. ago. Frosthaven is better in every way in my opinion. Gloomhaven, Jaws of the Lion, and Frosthaven are cooperative games of tactical combat, battling monsters and advancing a player's own individual goals in a persistent and changing world that is played over many game sessions. 5, which raised upwards of $12. There are a few things that go into the Frosthaven style that can't really be achieved like this. Many other Frosthaven starter classes are setup dependent, and if you are weak for two turns that can make certain comps perform very poorly on room 1s. . This is the cognitive version of a locked gloomhaven class, where you balance statuses and health to do extreme fixed damage and cc to enemies. Live playthrough sessions here to playlist of all these sessions -dead mile (claustraphobic corridors, perfect for traps) and 59. The Necromancer is more of a support than a damage dealer, with several actions that heal and buff allies and few actions that directly deal damage. r/Gloomhaven. With low health and a 12-card hand, the Necromancer is a melee support class that starts slow and needs to take advantage of its summons, primarily the Skeletons, in order to succeed. Do y. That's a pretty minor benefit to your interpretation in my. Related Topics Gloomhaven Fantasy adventure game Board game Tabletop games comment sorted by Best Top New Controversial Q&A Add a Comment. As creatively as some of the classes. Frosthaven Snowflake Class Guide. Frosthaven Drifter Written Review- Imgur Album. Characters /. We had this character combined with another unlockable class that has a lot of push/pull and made this character amazing. 11. Frosthaven: Geminate Overview. They have become increasingly more reliant on icons and less text from the recent changes and versions of the cards from the updates. Gloomhaven, Jaws of the Lion, and Frosthaven are cooperative games of tactical combat, battling monsters and advancing a player's own individual goals in a persistent and changing world that is played over many game sessions. • 1 yr. 5. That card is a top/bottom fantastic combo. If you don't like it you can always just pick up a new class. It seems pretty clear they made it for people who already put a lot of time into Gloomhaven and distanced themselves a. I will be updating this guide as I receive feedback, or if I gain new understanding about the class. Q1:Any advices/guide/technique on how and in which scenario to complete masteries? Now I am still lvl 2, but somehow I cannot figure out how to do both masteries. Shrieking Chakram and Shape the Path are pretty good picks for this build - the former has a reliable bottom and strong top loss to spend your resonance on, while Shape the Path gets you more resonance with the bottom and sets up massive hits with the top. I seriously consider skipping level 6 cards and grabbing both level 5s. Our fifth overview is for the Geminate. Frosthaven Class Overview Geminate. The Necromancer can control its summons, moving them around. are - create 2 traps at 2 distance OR. Join us! Rage Badger Discord: special perks on our Patreon! to Dwarf74's. Meteor: Yeah, this class seems much more intricate and fun. • 23 days ago. This time it's a lot more viable alternatives than back then.